Jul 30 2019

The Astros and other people’s pitchers

This subject was broached mid-season last year…

The Astros have built their quality pitching staff with mostly parts from other regions. Look at what the Astros playoff roster might look like after “the move” happens this week.

Starters

  • Justin Verlander. Obtained by trade (signed thru 2021)
  • Gerrit Cole. Obtained by trade (signed thru 2019)
  • Wade Miley. Signed as free agent (signed thru 2019)
  • Mystery Guest #4 (Let’s say this is Zack Wheeler – signed thru 2019)
  • Brad Peacock. Obtained by trade (Controlled by arbitration thru 2020)

Bullpen

  • Roberto Osuna. Obtained by trade (Controlled by arbitration thru 2021)
  • Ryan Pressly. Obtained by trade (Signed thru 2022)
  • Will Harris. Picked up off waivers (Signed thru 2019)
  • Collin McHugh. Picked up off waivers (Signed thru 2019)
  • Chris Devenski. Obtained by trade (Controlled by arbitration thru 2021)
  • Josh James. Drafted by the Astros (Controlled thru 2024)
  • Hector Rondon. Signed as free agent (signed thru 2019)
  • Jose Urquidy.  Signed as international free agent (Controlled thru at least 2024)

A few quick observations that are nothing special….

  1. The Astros pitching staff (in contrast to their everydays) is almost entirely built from the outside. Yes, they used their pitching prospects to bring in both pitchers and everyday players. But straight out the best pitcher they have developed themselves the last few years is Lance McCullers Jr. who is unfortunately out after TJ surgery
  2. In some ways – Devenski, who has never pitched for another major league team and McHugh, Peacock and Harris who did not pitch successfully or long for other major league teams were “developed” by this organization. And obviously Pressly, Verlander, Cole and Miley all have thrived in this atmosphere beyond what they were doing when they left their last gig.
  3. Like on the old Ed Sullivan show – how long can they keep all these spinning plates rotating on their sticks? Six of the mentioned pitchers could be gone by the end of this season including three starters. Will the Astros finally have youngsters step up or will they continue to find a Charlie Morton or Wade Miley in the discount bin?
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144 comments on “The Astros and other people’s pitchers”

      • I think that rumors about one player are meant to stimulate movement on acquiring a different player. I truly believe that the Astros are in on all four pitchers mentioned today so that they will get one of them for the price they are willing to pay

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  2. i think they will get them through trade, waivers, free agency, international signings and the draft. in other words, whatever way they can that makes sense. Luhnow is pretty good at this.

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  3. Dan, we are 8 years into the plan and you have a vision of Luhnow’s building technique.
    The guys getting the big long term contracts are the best everyday players. Pitchers very rarely get any money over $150 million. Pitching is volatile and if you tie up your money in pitching, say, like The Nationals have, you run out of money to tie up your good position players.
    Luhnow uses his specialty, THE DRAFT, to replenish his pitching staff with high quality veteran pitchers and to develop the kind of position players to use long term, because position players may grow old, but they play every day, providing WAR every day, and when they break, they generally recover quicker and then they go back to playing every day, rather than every fifth day.

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  4. Something about our in-house pitching development plan sure seems – to an outside observer, at least – to have jumped off rails this year.

    Exhibit ‘A’ – Forrest Whitely;
    Exhibit ‘B’ – Corbin Martin
    Exhibit ‘C’ – J.B. Bukauskus
    Exhibit ‘D’ – Framber Valdez
    Exhibit ‘E’ – Cionel Perez
    Exhibit ‘F’ – Tyler Ivey
    Exhibit ‘G’ – Ryan Hartman
    Exhibit ‘H’ -Carson Larue
    Exhibit ‘I’ – Dean Deetz
    Exhibit ‘J’ – Akeem Bostick
    Exhibit ‘K’ – Peter Solomon
    Exhibit ‘L’ – Bryan Abreu
    Exhibit ‘M’ – Yohan Ramirez
    Exhibit ‘N’ – Brett Adcock

    I could go on. But hopefully, they are all secretly working with videos of Mike Scott throwing the split-finger, Joe Niekro floating the knuckler, Dave Giusti tossing the palm ball, Mike Cuellar crafting the screwball, and Nolan Ryan backing people of the inside of the plate. Next year, they will all be pitching like superstars again.

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  5. Peter Gammons tweeted last week that the Houston rebuild had produced 1 TJ surgery and 2 #1 picks without any Major League wins. He mentioned this while talking about Whitley’s rehab start and Whitley’s overall numbers for this year.

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    • I’ll be glad when this intrigue is over then the team can just play with what we have. With the chemistry that’s there and if Peacock can get healthy, the team is very good. I don’t want to gut the farm system.

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  7. Got a bad feeling we’re going to end up standing pat, and it’ll backfire.

    I’m not nearly as in love with Tucker as others are here…I think he’ll provide the best return to begin with, and maybe it’s because his brother was a bust, but his genes scare me. His value will never be higher than what it is now, and truth be told he’s been hitting sub .200 for a bit. I know I’ll probably get lit up for saying this, but he provides the largest return for the smallest loss.

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    • Billy –
      I have no idea really whether Tucker will be a bust or a 15 year major leaguer. But your point is well taken – that if Tucker is standing between the Astros and someone they think can take them back to the promised land it would be foolish to not pull the trigger.
      But….. for all we know with a number of big time arms available they have one or more pitchers rated high that won’t cost them Tucker. And if that is true I don’t have a problem with them not trading him.
      But….it feels like they need to pick up someone to shore them up because too many things have to go right (or not go wrong) for them to make it through the rest of the season and the playoffs in good starting pitch shape.
      Don’t see any reason to jump on you – I just have to trust that with as much information as the front office has that they make the right choice. There is no reason to think that the front office guys who led us to the 2017 championship, brought us so close (despite injuries to Springer, Altuve and Correa) to the 2018 WS and have the team at the very top of major league baseball again this year despite a hatful of injuries won’t make a decent decision on who to bring in if anyone. In Luhnow I trust until 2013 returns…..

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      • I also don’t have any real problem with the potential loss of Tucker. I’d want it to be for a guy who will be around for awhile though. Like I said earlier, I also like the Wheeler of 2018. Strom might well be able to bottle that version and Luhnow might also have extension plans for him. As Dan said, I think we’re in good hands. And even if we get shutout, I won’t think that means the season is over.

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  8. I agree with you for the most part; I’m just afraid overvaluing him will cost us dearly, both in the short AND long term. I hope I’m wrong, and I do have faith in Luhnow, just not in Tucker until he proves me wrong on the major league level

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    • Billy, I would not expect to give up Tucker for Wheeler, but maybe a couple of the other guys. Maybe we’ll see in a few hours!

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  9. Folks….just listening to this game made me a nervous wreck! I can only IMAGINE what it was like to actually SEE it!! Verlander was on tonight!
    *14* WINS for our Ace!!!

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  14. Ok, so Wilmington is one of the best teams in the Carolina High A League and Forrest Whitley made a rehab start for Fayetteville against them tonight.
    He pitched 5 innings, 1 hit, no runs, no walks and nine strikeouts. No wild pitches, no hit batters, 57 pitches/39 strikes. One single.
    Go figure.

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    • That’s because he’s not pitching at Round Rock – a short car ride back to his San Antonio stomping grounds and the “friends” who helped him get suspended for a non-PED drug (see Singleton, Jonathan).
      Ok – Dan P is only speculating here

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  15. Just a few weeks ago, Altuve was hitting .235 and some of us were questioning his approach. All of a sudden, he’s back to .300 where he belongs. Nice to see our number nine bat get the game winning hit. What a line up! If Verlander can keep getting outs relying more on his off speed stuff , he will be Cy Young again.

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  16. Framber threw 7 shutout innings for RR.
    Toro got 4 hits for CC
    Lorenzo Quintana got 4 hits for CC and is hitting so well that he is DHing and playing 1B.

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  19. Astros and the dam yankees, are in talks with the Diamondbacks for Robbie Ray.
    PLEASE JEFF LUHNOW….GET THIS DONE!!!

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  20. Why are middling franchises the ones making moves? Is there an attempt to artificially stimulate the market, the ask to high for contenders? Wow! The comp for what’s left should be fierce & which GM will blink 1st? Don’t worry, it won’t be JL.
    MLB Central guys are singing our tune, get SP for now & to fit in when/if GC leaves. And BP help. They really like Stros chances even better if they do, so do we. Brent has worked miracles with other tms pitchers so let the music play on. If there is a fit for now, the playoffs & the future, I say go for it.
    As for pitching, I say go rob the Indians, Dodgers scouting dept, they seem to do quite well developing P.

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  23. Anyone can read this on the website, so not original with me, but JV had a conversation with Nolan Ryan this month where Ryan mentioned he developed a changeup late in his career. JV took the hint and has been working on other pitches. As we all know, JV grew up with Ryan as his idol. So he’s been with us since 2017 and he just now sat down and got some advice? I’m sure I’m missing something obvious here.

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  24. Maldonado is not a good hitter but he is not Stassi bad
    Martin – +0.7 WAR / 26 runs/ 6 HR / 17 RBIs / .217 BA / .285 OBP / .634 OPS
    Max – – 0.7 WAR / 4 runs / 1 HR / 3 RBIs / .167 BA / .235 OBP / .446 OPS

    Max is only slightly more productive than a bat rack

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  25. I like the Tony Kemp for Maldonado trade. I won’t delve into the Stassi situation, but MM will give Chirinos a better backup who is familiar with Astros pitchers and has a chance to get a hit when he comes to the plate.

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  26. Thanks for imparting that info to me. Now I’ll go back to listening to pundits discuss who gets who, what, when, where and how on MLB, and dream the Stros land a very big/good fish or two

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  27. Tony will have more chances to play in Chicago, and every one of us wishes him all the best! Maldonaldo brings a mature backup for Chirinos. The rotation knows him, and trusts him. Good trade!

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  28. I think Abreu has been brought up as a reliever and will be throwing his best pitches in relief appearances. This year he has been a tandem starter and I believe he was throwing a quantity of his lesser pitches trying to improve them.
    I don’t think the Astros would bring him up from AA if they thought he is the guy we’ve been seeing in Corpus. I think they believe he is the guy we saw last year that blew batters away with his good stuff.
    Most scouts always saw him as a reliever and the Astros wanted to see him try to be a starter. Let’s see what he’s got.

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  31. I’m done with this. I have other stuff to do, rather than begging some other club for a pitcher. I’ll check back after 3:00 to see if we made a trade.

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  33. We’re seeing a bunch of incremental upgrades being made but the real blockbusters are yet to come, or so we think. The Tigers Greene just went to Atlanta. Somebody has to blink or either side.

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  38. So – supposedly Stassi is going to the Angels and the Astros are getting a reliever Joe Biagini from the Blue Jays who has decent but not great numbers (shades of Ryan Pressly)

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  43. For me personally this has been a very disappointing trade deadline, not just for the Stro’s, but for MLB in general. Crickets chirping instead of fireworks booming is how its being described. Uh oh, Stros grab Sanchez I hear

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  49. Greinke makes Astros heavy favorites and shows massive commitment to win it all at any cost!!! I love it. Add in Sanchez and Biagini and this is the biggest trade season I can remember Astros ever having.

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