Way back in early 2020, after the Astros were “punished” for the cheating scandal and before a pandemic from China wiped the Astros off the everyday headlines, we decided to call the scandal “it”. For one, it sure abbreviated typing out Astros’ sign-stealing scandal and other alternates to that every time the subject came up.
It also altered the “personality” of the scandal, kind of like when John Carpenter expressed the evil of a psycho killer by painting a William Shatner mask a plain white and labeling Michael Myers as The Shape.
Here is where we started referring to it as “it”.
Some comments the last few days about “it” and the varied treatment of front office figures triggered this return to that which thou shall not say.
It is a fascinating fact that A.J. Hinch received the same one-year suspension for what the Astros did under his watch as Alex Cora got when he seemed to be involved in the cheating itself with the Astros and as the manager of the Red Sox when cheating was also occurring. He was only suspended for his actions with the Astros, as they conveniently had a video room operator fall on the sword for everyone in Boston. Additionally, GM Jeff Luhnow was suspended a season for what happened under his watch with the Astros, while GM Dave Dombrowski was untouched by the scandal at Boston.
What I have found even more interesting is that Jeff Luhnow, who is unquestionably the best GM in team history, has supposedly not gotten a sniff of another MLB job. Is that due to his own desire? We don’t know.
Back at the time, it always felt like MLB was happy to have one team to dump all their cheating punishment on – the Houston Astros. They had the one singing bird they needed in Mike Fiers and even better they could get their point about cheating emphasized to all the teams while avoiding heavy punishment for their golden boy franchises the Red Sox and the Yankees. If preventing cheating was so important, why did those two teams get away with wrist slaps after the Apple Watch mini-scandal?
Getting back to Luhnow, he is out of baseball perhaps forever, while both Hinch and Cora were back in after their suspensions were over. Was this his choice? Perhaps being in the ownership group of a minor league soccer team in Mexico is much more lucrative than his former spot. But was that all that was behind his situation?
Most of what happened with “it” and the aftermath is pure speculation.
- MLB suspended Luhnow and Hinch for a year, but this was immediately followed by owner Jim Crane firing both. The speculation was that MLB came to this agreement with Crane in exchange for not suspending his players or even the owner himself or (horrors) taking away the 2017 Championship trophy.
- After Alex Cora (who was the Red Sox manager) was suspended by the MLB for his actions with the Astros, the Red Sox did not fire him. They kept his spot open and brought him back into the dugout after his suspension was up. This felt like another way to insulate the Red Sox from the same kind of punishment and public shaming that the Astros faced.
- Luhnow basically played the “I did not know what was happening” card. Speculation was that someone (Hinch?) told MLB that Luhnow certainly knew what was happening and that by lying about it he became a person non grata around baseball.
- Luhnow himself was not a sympathetic figure around baseball and perhaps within his own organization. The Brandon Taubman incident where his assistant was drunk and spoke inappropriately to female reporters during their 2019 ALCS celebration certainly did not help him. More speculation would say other teams did not like the blatant tanking the team went through in the 2011-2013 time frame. The hardball handling of 2014 1st rounder Brady Aiken which also hurt fifth rounder Jacob Nix may have rubbed some the wrong way (though it ended up being the right business decision). Some may have also thought that the Cardinals hacking of the Astros that ended with the Cards’ scouting director Chris Correa getting a 46 month prison sentence might have been justified. They may have thought that Luhnow might have actually taken intellectual property from St. Louis when he left.
- Maybe Luhnow did not know what was going on with “it” (highly unlikely all things considered) but he likely had set up a win at all costs mentality in the organization that set the stage for pushing the envelope over the top and resulted in “it”.
Will we ever see Jeff Luhnow in major league baseball again? It may really depend on what he wants. He is only 57, and his resume shines with one giant black mark against it. He was part of a Cardinal front office that was tremendous at locating and developing in-house talent. He came to the Astros and was part of tearing them down to the bones and then building them into the most successful franchise of the last decade. The Astros were on the cutting edge of applying high-end technology to a sport that was still stuck with eyeballs and radar guns. Very few people have done what he has done. Unless MLB has sent a “do not hire” picture of him in every front office in the business, someone would give him another shot. But maybe he does not want it. Time will tell.
ALL THINGS ASTROS 
34 responses to “Do we want to talk about Jeff Luhnow and “IT”?”
So are the Astros going to open the season with a six man rotation minus Justin Verlander?
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So, Daveb I just saw this article pop up
Justin Verlander to open 2024 season on injured list (mlb.com)
Adding onto this the fact that I have yet to see J.P. France pitch in a game (he had been reported with shoulder soreness the first day of Spring Training) this can get interesting.
They play 7 days in a row to start the season before a day off. Who would the six be?
Framber Valdez
Cristian Javier
Jose Urquidy
Hunter Brown
Spencer Arrighetti??
Ronel Blanco/Brandon Bielak??
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Those are my six too Dan.
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It’s an interesting question – Verlander is kinda the reason you push out to 6 – to keep his arm fresher. The rest of the staff may not need it – but given how their first 6 weeks will be – maybe they do anyway.
Unless Arrighetti Spaghetti impresses, I don’t see it. Sometimes these things come down to control. It’s the same way on the other side – you know Caratini and Dubon are locked in, you know Kessinger with his flexibility probably is in, which gives you one spot. That one spot – I think goes to either Singleton or Cabbage simply because if it goes to neither that means they are both “designated for assignment” and they can decline that assignment and become free agents, and that is not the case with Loperfido or Julks or anyone else. Cabbage probably entered camp with the advantage of being both a 1B and OF, but has promptly demonstrated that putting the ball in play continues to be an issue.
So, I think Bielak is gonna have to be really bad to not get one of those spots. We know he is a limited package, but we also know he does the most to exploit his own package by generally throwing a lot of strikes, and he is out of options. It’s either the 26 man, or designate and hope you keep him, and given the pitching out there, it’s not going to be keep him.
So I would like to see Bielak in a 5 man rotation with the 4 guys locked in, or a 6 man rotation if France is ready, with Blanco filling as a 6th starter occasionally but available to bridge if a starter is out by the 3rd with another arm capable of stretching like Martinez or Dubin. Six man rotations always stretch a bullpen, especially if we look at Javier, Brown and Urquidy as more of the 5-6 inning type pitchers. Sure all three are going to have games where they get through 7 but typically, probably not.
If you are going to limit guys to around 100 pitches, maybe 110 depending on spot in the inning, and they are all between 25-31 years old, I don’t see a reason for 6 man rotation even with so few off days. But I guess it’s a new age.
I don’t want to see high leverage, game deciding innings pitched that often by the front of the pen when we expect the back end to be deciding them. But it seems we are going to employing some combination of Blanco, Martinez, Dubin, Coleman,, Sousa, Mushinski, not a list of people that give me a lot of confidence. One of these guys stepping up and becoming a stalwart would be huge.c
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You inexplicably failed to mention that he sued the Astros for contract money.
Nowhere in the business world do you sue your employer and then get rehired.
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Hey Jim – good point – except for Angel Hernandez, who sued his employer and ended up keeping a job he can’t do and getting playoff umpire assignments he does not deserve.
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By the way, it looks like manager Espada is showing his opening day line up today.
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Yep
Altuve 2B
Alvarez DH
Bregman 3B
Tucker RF
Abreu 1B
Diaz C
McCormick LF
Pena SS
Meyers CF
With Blanco on the mound
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Not much to say about “it” that hasn’t already been beaten dead. The best scenario is for the Astros to keep winning and laughing at the hypocrites who think that nobody else was cheating.
People are squawkin’, squawkin’ ’bout Astros,
I hear them haters, you won’t believe it.
They think we’re cheaters long uncovered,
I just ignore it but they keep sayin’ we…
Bang it just a little too loud,
Lay off balls just a little too close,
We swing just a little too hard.
Maybe they’re seein’, somethin’ we don’t darlin’.
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about
(Somethin’ to squawk about)
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about
(Somethin’ to squawk about)
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about
How about you shove it?
I feel so punished, I never noticed
You act so nervous, could you be facin’ our team?
It took the rumor to make me wonder,
Now I’m convinced that you’re goin’ under.
Competin’ ‘gainst you every day,
Beatin’ up you every night.
I’m hopin’ that you just go away,
Now that we know it, let’s really show it darlin’.
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about
(Somethin’ to squawk about)
A little mystery to figure out
(Somethin’ to squawk about)
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about
How about you shove, shove, shove it?
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about babe,
A little mystery to figure out.
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about,
How about you shove it? Ooh…
Listen to ’em baby
(Somethin’ to squawk about)
A little mystery won’t hurt ’em
(Somethin’ to squawk about)
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk
How about our you shove, shove, shove, shove it!
Whoowhoo mmmm hey oohh whoowhoo
About you shove, shove, shove, shove it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNv0mAu3eaI
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I think Bielak and Blanco will be 5 & 6
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The not so killer B’s – Brown, Bielak and Blanco?
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My comment seems to have been lost in cyberspace. Maybe it was not PC.
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AstroNut – most of us have occasionally lost our comments along the way for no known reason.
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Well – on the positive side – Ronel Blanco continued his string of scoreless appearances blanking the Marlins on one hit in a 3 inning appearance.
On the negative side, our starting lineup which looked like what our starting lineup would look like on opening day managed two hits (Abreu and McCormick) and no runs with another hit by Julks off the bench.
“Spring Training stats do not matter. Spring training stats do not matter. Spring training stats do not matter…..”
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A long but interesting read
Chris Correa: What ex-Cardinals analyst learned after prison, Astros hack – Sports Illustrated
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The guy went too far. But he’s paid the price. I’d like to see the Astros find a way to drop the court order requiring him to pay the outstanding 280K.
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Verlander to the IR…
https://www.mlb.com/news/justin-verlander-injured-list-to-start-2024-season
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Not much to say about “it” that hasn’t already been beaten dead. The best scenario is for the Astros to keep winning and laughing at the hypocrites who think that nobody else was cheating.
People are squawkin’, squawkin’ ’bout Astros,
I hear them haters, you won’t believe it.
They think we’re cheaters long uncovered,
I just ignore it but they keep sayin’ we…
Bang it just a little too loud,
Lay off balls just a little too close,
We swing just a little too hard.
Maybe they’re seein’, somethin’ we don’t darlin’.
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about
(Somethin’ to squawk about)
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about
(Somethin’ to squawk about)
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about
How about you shove it?
I feel so punished, I never noticed
You act so nervous, could you be facin’ our team?
It took the rumor to make me wonder,
Now I’m convinced that you’re goin’ under.
Competin’ ‘gainst you every day,
Beatin’ up you every night.
I’m hopin’ that you just go away,
Now that we know it, let’s really show it darlin’.
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about
(Somethin’ to squawk about)
A little mystery to figure out
(Somethin’ to squawk about)
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about
How about you shove, shove, shove it?
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about babe,
A little mystery to figure out.
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk about,
How about you shove it? Ooh…
Listen to ’em baby
(Somethin’ to squawk about)
A little mystery won’t hurt ’em
(Somethin’ to squawk about)
Let’s give ’em somethin’ to squawk
How about you shove, shove, shove, shove it?
Whoowhoo mmmm hey oohh whoowhoo
About you shove, shove, shove, shove it?
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Good morning! The Astros have given up 22 stolen bases and thrown out just 2 would be base stealers in our first 11 practice games. Seems to me clubs are making an extra effort to disrupt our guys on the mound this spring by running around the bases more frequently. We saw some of this late last year. Are we going to start seeing pitch outs again? Quick pitches? Stepping off the mound is pretty much a thing of the past. Even so, can our pitchers get better at holding guys on and delivering pitches quicker in the next three weeks? Seems this pitch clock business continues to artificially turn base stealing into somewhat of a walk in the park. Or am I needlessly concerned these are still just fake games and our pitchers and catchers will start to get their timing together?
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Astros injuries and roster moves (mlb.com)
Kind of interesting – JV throws 60 pitches off a mound – but not to hitters and he will not be ready in 3 weeks to start the season, but France throws 20 pitches in live BP and will be ready. Maybe JV was throwing Zack Greinke slow-slow pitches.
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I am sure JV has his eyes on 140 innings as much as the Mets (and us) do. I’m not concerned. Brandon Bielak should be.
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Pretty emphatic here
Brown Downplays Astros’ Pursuit Of Pitching Additions – MLB Trade Rumors
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The reason Luhnow got fired is because he was the guy in charge and the scandal happened with him in charge. His knowing about it or not knowing about it were both good reasons to be let go.
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I’m not really defending him from being fired, but wondering why it did not happen to the Boston GM and also wondering if this is a blacklist type situation with Luhnow. Is he allowed a return to baseball from a very bad mistake or is this such a terrible character flaw he is unofficially banned forever.
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Dan, this is just my opinion, but there were rumblings before the Astros were winning that virtually every other organization did not like Luhnow or the way he conducted himself. On the other hand, did you ever hear any stories about people not liking Alex Cora? Manfred needed a scapegoat and Luhnow was an easy target because no one was going to defend him. I don’t see anyone bringing him back into the league unless he presents some unique vision or idea he can sell that would give teams a major advantage.
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Devin – I get it – but I’ve seen “bad” guys over and over again lose their spot in the sports world for worse than this, but someone sees that they won and want a piece of that.
But maybe he just does not want it anymore.
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Sheesh. This topic conjures up in my mind a disturbing image of Rob Manfred in a bar, wearing a Carrie Underwood wig and leather dress, holding a Louisville Slugger in one hand and a pocketknife in other, singing a really bad karaoke version of ‘(Maybe next time he’ll think) Before He Cheats’.
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The Astros new Top 30 Prospects list came out this week and and listed in the top 20 are 8 potential outfielders and 9 pitchers. Those seem to be the Astros positions of need in the coming seasons, especially if the Astros and Bregman get together on their future. https://www.mlb.com/prospects/astros/
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Yeah I was looking at that when it came out and was as interested in what was not covered in the list as what was covered. If Bregman leaves it sure feels like they need to bring someone in to replace him – not sure any of the near ready guys is the answer for next season.
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More opportunities for the players to get injured….
https://www.mlb.com/news/astros-spring-breakout-roster-2024?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage
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And a shoutout back to the crawfish boxes
Astros Crawfish Boil: March 8, 2024 – The Crawfish Boxes
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Stanek to Mariners:
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/03/mariners-agree-to-deal-with-ryne-stanek.html
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What is going on with the Astro’s pitchers thus far. Today, in the first inning, THREE stolen bases by the Phillies. This has been a problem throughout spring training.
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Sarge, MLB has decided to run on the Astros. Unfortunately, this can’t get fixed in just three weeks of Spring Training. It will have to be a work in progress. We were pretty bad in this department last year too, but it seems clubs have really focused on exploiting this weakness in 2024.
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