After writing the previous tome on the difficulties of modern fandom …..
….. I sure did not expect to be confronted with an immediate “in yo face sucka” conundrum that makes being a modern fan even more difficult.
Y’all have already put out some interesting thoughts on the “cheating” story.
There’s old pro’s old school hang ’em long and hang ’em high thoughts…..
How Ironic that this particular scandal comes to light in the midst of this particular post in our blog.
I’m an old time baseball guy. It’s actually part of my blog name.
If the Astros did this, they should fire the manager and the GM, if he knew it was happening, and start over.
If it’s true, admit it, remove those responsible and keep going with the plan.
It’s not like Crane isn’t willing to replace guys who mess up. He did it with the removal of Reid Ryan, who oversaw Media and Communications during the Taubman fiasco
This team is too important to its fan base to put up with this BS. And this team is too good to let this drag it down.
Find the culprits, make the necessary changes and let’s go back to real baseball. Nobody is bigger than baseball itself. If it happened, heads should roll.
There’s rj’s stream of consciousness – mulling it over out loud rant ……
now wait a minute. i know my memory is not what it once was but didnt cora and beltran receive praise for their abilty to steal signs? didnt beltran have conversations with players while here and later after he left, that suddenly had bats coming alive? wasnt a part of that anticipating pitches and stealing signs? where are cora and beltran now? were they punished or did they advance? stealing signs (or the attempt to) has been a regular part baseball for a long time.
now using technology to do it is a new development, at least to me. does this make it suddenly worse? i would say yes.
is the ability to be a careful observer and see a pitcher holding his glove a certain way on a certain pitch thereby tipping his pitches the same? i say no.
watch the third base coach. doesnt he give an extensive amount of signs to the batter? why? to keep the opposing team from knowing the batters instruction. is it the same to try to read these signs as well? i say no.
when a runner is on second base the catcher routinely changes the way he is giving signs to counteract the runner trying to determine the upcoming pitch.
is this the same? i say no.
get any and all electronic devices, lenses or other non-human devices out of the equation by making them illegal and enforcing it.
leave the human interaction alone. if you are clever enough to see a pattern and take advantage of it (using nothing other than your baseball acumen) good for you and its on them to correct their mistake.
baseball has been changed enough lately, correct the electronic crap and leave the human factor alone.
There’s Sandy’s short – to the point X-Files (We are not alone) comment…..
Or maybe it’s allowed for certain teams not based in Houston.
Mr. Bill’s defense….
Folks . . . the video they have doctored to argue that the Astros were cheating in 2017 was of Evan Gattis swinging and missing at a fastball, then not getting a hit. This is their smoking gun?
Zanuda’s righteous disgust…..
Ok, then let’s remove Ipads in the dugout and any other electronic devices for all teams. Then we’re all back to the same rules. This is BS! At least I hope so. And Fiers can ESAD for all I care. Sure as hell didn’t mind it when he played for us.
Dave b’s explanation of why this may be happening to the Astros….
A whole lot of people have always hated the Yankees. They’re winners. They are arrogant. We’re similar, including the arrogant part that I could do without. This is todays version of the spitball as far as I’m concerned. I hope we’re not guilty. I don’t like having an asterisk . Regarding Fiers, he led our team in innings pitched in 2017, then got left off the post season roster. I’m pretty sure he does not like us.
It’s obviously premature to comment before we know all the facts, but just the other week we had an article published talking about Gerrit Cole which included mentions of how he improved his approach since joining the Astros. One reference was to video study and the author noted that MLB has employees in the dugout, in the tunnel, and in the clubhouse watching so players cannot go watch video during the game. How is it possible the Astros had secret cameras providing a live feed to a monitor just inside the door to the tunnel but the MLB employees never caught it? Why was it not a national story that Aaron Judge and another Yankee were viewing iPads in the dugout during the ALCS until the cameras caught them at which time they hid them from view?
Sarge H’s indifference …..
I really do not care, does anybody here?
AC45’s logical conclusion….
Well, if the Astros are using cameras to steal signs, they turn them off with runners on base and in the late innings.
Or maybe the Nationals, with the help of the Russians, hacked the cameras.
Becky’s straight ahead down home statement….
WELCOME TO THE *NEW* AMERICA. I can accuse you of ANYTHING and you have to just shut up. That’s it in a nutshell. It doesn’t matter if Mike Fires is a liar or not…….he said it so THAT means it’s true, it’s up to the Astros organization to prove it’s not. Have a nice day.
And Dan P avoiding the subject through humor (and I apologize if I missed anyone)
It was Colonel Mustard with a candlestick in the Kitchen
What we are left with….
In the end, it is again the fans that are left with the emotional crap from all of this. We pay good money to see this team in person or at home. We give away hundreds (thousands) of hours of our time to the sport and team we love.
This is all supposed to be a distraction for us. A distraction from life’s problems as we somehow deeply care about a billionaire’s toy made up of young millionaires who will gladly entertain you this year and someone else the next. Where’s the fun and distraction in this, if after 50+ years we finally cheer for a team and a championship that may have an asterisk attached to it.
In our hearts we despise cheating and there is no way to talk about electronic “surveillance” and sign stealing through technology and not consider it that. It may help us a bit to throw out the “everyone does it” argument, which may even be true. But we hate to be placed in this position. We look back and see someone like George Springer getting a hit and reaching base and turning towards the dugout and giving them two thumbs up. Was that the glee of the start of a rally or was it a thank you to whoever banged the trash can lid to signal the next pitch after seeing the catcher’s sign on video?
Through the years players and teams have cheated in many different ways. It has been revealed that the Giants likely stole signals from someone hidden in their scoreboard to help them erase a 13 game Dodger lead in the last 6 weeks of the 1951 season. Gaylord Perry made the Hall of Fame thanks to a “Little dab will do ya” from his hat and hair. Pitchers have scuffed, cut, marked up and beat up balls to get a little more break. Hitters have used corked bats (Say it ain’t so Billy Hatcher) and steroids (Sosa, Bonds, McGwire and too many to count)to launch balls higher and farther. We’ve always wondered if Mike Scott had thrown more of a spit finger than a split finger fastball. Trevor Bauer a couple years ago said the Astros pitchers had to be using pine tar or its equivalent to get some of the velocity and spin results they were seeing.
We can say “everyone’s doing it” but wasn’t that part of Chris Correa’s defense before he was carted off for hacking the Astros treasure trove of information? Remember he said he was only doing it because he believed the Astros were hacking the Cards first.
What do we believe and again why are we put in this position? It is most likely that baseball will slap someone on the hands over this and hope to bury the story and “handle” things behind the scenes. But if it is too deep and too pervasive what will they do? OP suggests deep sixing Luhnow and Hinch. What if they decided to vacate the Astros championship? Would we still want to pull for what we thought was the little engine that could?
This is unfair to the faithful, whose faith is being shaken as I write these words.