Now about the Astros’ closer…..

Luke Gregerson is not and never will be your classic fireballing, shutdown closer. He is a guy who has an OK fastball and a good slider. He succeeds when the opposition goes diving for that slider, which then dives under their bats. He does not succeed when he gets behind on the count and has to come in with that OK fastball.

Currently, Gregerson is tied for 4th in the AL with 13 saves. However, he is also tied for the lead with four blown saves on the season. Most of the best closers have between zero and two blown saves at this point in the season.

Beyond that, in his last 12 appearances, he has six saves and four blown saves and two appearances when a save was not on the line. His ERA, that was 1.64 on May 3rd, has now ballooned to 4.32 exactly one month later. So what are the options at this point?

  • As George (41) Bush said, “Stay the course”. Keep the veteran Gregerson as the 9th inning guy. Recognize what A.J. Hinch admitted, that he had been over-used (4 games in 5 days) and that his ERA was an acceptable 3.28 before his three run outing the other night.
  • Move lights out 8th inning reliever Will Harris into the 9th inning spot. How lights out is Mr. Harris? He has made 23 appearances this season and only allowed one run. And the one run he has been charged with? In the third game of the season (his first appearance), he had gotten the Yanks out in the 6th and in the 7th was pulled after allowing a single with one out. The runner scored when Ken Giles gave up one of his early season late inning bombs two batters later. You need the Hubble telescope to see Harris’ 0.36 ERA and both his 0.730 WHIP and his 6.75 Ks / BB are outstanding.
  • Speaking of Ken Giles….He was brought here to be the closer or the closer-in-waiting. He pitched great in Philadelphia the last two seasons. He has a high-octane fastball and an inconsistent slider that can be devastating (sometimes to the other team, sometimes to him). Yes, his ERA is 6.00. Yes, he has blown up at inopportune times. But if he was handed the keys would he get his confidence back?
  • Since giving up 10 runs (9 earned) in two early season blow-outs, Michael Feliz has been death out of the bullpen. In his last 11 appearances, his ERA is 0.48. In those last 18.2 innings he has 30 Ks against one BB and only four hits. He has four wins in four extra inning games in that time frame. He has been Beast Feliz.

It says here, that the front office will probably continue with Gregerson as the closer, rightly or wrongly, but will look to move him at the deadline. They will likely say that Giles is not ready (which he is probably not), that they don’t want to tamper with Harris or Feliz, who are both almost untouchable. But it is likely they will make a move at some point.

  • Who do you like in the closer role?
  • Do you think Harris would melt if asked to pitch one inning later than he does?
  • Do you like having Feliz in this role where he comes out of the bullpen and holds on to tied games until the Astros un-tie them?
  • Do you feel better with Gregerson as the grizzled veteran anchoring the bullpen?
  • Do you think Giles would pitch better if the front office and dugout handed him the closer’s role?
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177 responses to “Now about the Astros’ closer…..”

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  1. For now, I’m fine just keeping things the way they are. I think Hinch is right that Gregerson has been over used and could use some time off. I like the way the bullpen is set up. What else can you say about Harris? He is the closest thing to a sure thing that we have, but I don’t want to change his role yet. He is excelling in the 8th inning. Giles is showing improvement, but I’m not comfortable putting him in the pressure situations of the 9th inning yet. Feliz is great to have, especially in extra innings, when he can go 2+ innings and shut down the opponent. The construction of the bullpen, in my opinion is fine. I have confidence Gregerson will get back on track. The team is really playing great baseball now and I don’t want to mess with a good thing.

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  2. Right now we don’t have a “closer”. Four blown saves is unacceptable. And if Hinch wants to take the heat off of Gregerson by saying he used poor judgement in sending him to the mound four out of five days, that’s nice, but I’m not giving our manager a free pass. I don’t accept Hinch making that kind of mistake. If the closer is not ready to close, then he should not be in there. Hinch should know the guy is tired. We have other resources.

    That said, I don’t change his job title right now, but I get much more flexible about who I use in the closer role. We have three or four guys that might get the job done in any given situation. And Hoyt is going to end up here in some role at some point. The pen is one area on this club that we have some depth. And ironically, all of a sudden, maybe the catchers position too.

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      • How many more leads does this guy have to blow before he gets taken out of the closer role? An 88 mph fastball, and guys are simply not chasing his slider. Put Harris in the closer role and stop all the tenure, “he’s got experience” nonsense with Gregerson. The A’s let him go because they knew he wasn’t true closer material.

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  3. This is just my perception of things but it seems that Gregerson does poorly when given a large lead to protect. With a three run lead why not let one of the other bullpen guys at least start the inning and if they get in trouble you still have Gregerson available. I think Hinch saw a chance to get him an easy save which would have been nice for his stats but put unnecessary wear and tear on his arm and the team psyche. I think our pitching is coming around with the exception of the occasional stinky start but with Feldman and Devenski on the roster we should be able to weather even those storms.

    I’d be a little hesitant to change Harris’ role. Keeping him fresh should be easier if he stays where he is. Remember how he faded last year when overused. Feliz is turning into the guy we thought we were getting in Giles. I like him in late inning tie games. You can see his confidence and effectiveness feeding off each other and its pretty exciting.

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  4. Agreed on the comments about the current bullpen construct. Stay the course for now and don’t overuse a guy. Feliz and Harris, possibly to their dismay, are doing exactly as they should in their current positions and should remain. With occasional shaky outings from our starters, those 2 guys are invaluable in keeping the team in the game. Timing on their entry into the game is key.
    Like with Gomez, Giles has not performed as advertised. There is no way of knowing when that will happen if it does. I have not really seen anything from him that would give me confidence that he can hold a lead in a tight game… and wins are precious. Like Gregerson, he gives up lots of runs. Some say it just makes the game more interesting. Scr#%w that !!!
    With Devenski and Feldman, and all hands healthy, the Stros are in as good shape as anyone in the league with the bullpen now.

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  5. Another comment about Stros pitching if you don’t mind.
    It seems that Fister, Fiers, Feldman and sometimes McHugh, and this year ,DK throw a lot of high strikes. With the short porch at Minute Maid, is that ill advised ?
    McCullers and Feliz throw good knee high strikes. If you throw really hard, maybe the high ones are OK.
    Since this appears prevalent this season one wonders if they are being coached this way. Or…. That just may be one of those simple concepts that is difficult to execute like “see ball..hit ball”.

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  6. I watch almost every game. My gut tells me to stick with Gregerson right now as the main closer and use Harris there when the manager decides that Gregerson is not available, ahead of time.
    I like Devenski more and more in the bullpen and it doesn’t have anything to do with my gut. It has to do with his curve. Devenski has a decent enough fastball. He has a great change up and it is made even better by that quirky delivery. But if he can get that curve over the plate like he did last night, he is going to be awesome in relief. His curve ball absolutely froze two different batters in his two innings of relief and hitters have to be going back in the clubhouse to see what he did because that is a pitch he has not shown effectively in his past outings.
    I have always prefaced my deadline trade comments with “if the Astros are out of contention by the end of June” and I mean that. The one guy they should try to get something for even if they are in the race is Neshek. They need to try to get a decent prospect for him by the deadline because Hoyt is ready and they don’t need to pay him $6.5 million next year. Let the team that trades for him make that decision.
    I like the idea of keeping Feliz in the bullpen for now because he will be a better pitcher next year, just for the pressure he has dealt with at the major league level this year. I sincerely believe he will be ready enough and good enough to be a starter next season.

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    • I completely agree with this. I drool at the thought of a rotation next year that includes Keuchel, McHugh, LMJ, Feliz and Musgrove. Fiers can be the long man out of the pen. Hoyt will replace Neshek in the bullpen and Guduan and McCurry are close to being ready in 2017. The bullpen is definitely an area where the Astros have plenty of depth.

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  7. I could be wearing rose colored glasses today, however I think our pitching is shaping up well. If Gregerson keeps stumbling we have options for sure. I agree with someone on the last post, Friers needs to go, Devenski much better option at this point, bring Hoyt up.

    For this team to make a run its all about the bats, consistent good at bats and score runs.When we score 3runs or more are record is really good!

    On another note, quietly Teoscar Hernandez is putting together a great comeback year in CC

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    • Good comment. We’ve scored 4 or more runs in only 9 of our 30 losses. It doesn’t matter much who we run out in which inning when the offense can’t be consistent.

      As to the roles, I don’t make so much of a change as an effort to not burn guys out. Gregerson shouldn’t have pitched the other night. Harris is seeing too much work. Some of it is on the starting pitching, but if Fields would have been passable or Giles hadn’t imploded to start the year we’d be in better shape. Options? We have minor league depth who can’t come up due to 40 man issues. The starters will have to reliably get into and through the sixth inning. After that, I’d run out the closer options as:
      1. Gregerson
      2. Giles
      3. Feliz

      I want to see some of both Giles and Feliz in that pressure of the ninth inning, but you run them out there to keep guys fresh…not as a rotating closer by committee.

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    • And I don’t think Fiers “has to go”. His last game was his worst game of the year, but every player on the Astros played terribly that night except for Moran. Why would you get rid of your #5 starter for having a bad game and give a pass to every Astros player who sucked that night against Matt Shoemaker, whose ERA was over 6.00 at the start of that game.
      Fiers doesn’t have to go. He has to pitch better. He is a member of the team and has pitched as well this season as the Astros’ #1 starter has, for one-fourteenth of the money.

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      • I agree that there is no reason to get rid of Fiers. He actually pitched very well in his last game (the one Gregerson gave up 3 runs in the 9th against AZ). He has had some stinkers this year, but like you said everyone in the starting rotation has had a few stinkers. There is no reason to get rid of him, especially considering his salary.

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  8. I try to use Fangraphs for WAR because using the same source lends to consistency.
    Right now, Evan Gattis has .4 accumulated WAR for the Astros and he never approached that last year. If he keeps contributing like this I will really have to compliment Luhnow for it. Gattis is performing behind the plate better than I thought he ever would and the best part of his game is coming out like a bullet to field balls hit out in front of the plate, something that Conger was horrible at.
    The one thing I haven’t seen him tested on is foul popups.

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    • I made a post over at TCB about Gattis. I love the fact he now brings some defensive value to the Astros. Moving him back to catcher was a stroke of genius and gives us a replacement if Castro signs elsewhere next season. Gattis’ low OBP, but high power plays well if he is a serviceable catcher, which he has shown to be so far. As a DH he wasn’t valuable, but as a catcher he suddenly brings good value to the team.

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  9. When a guy who isn’t a Top 30 Prospect makes a real difference to his team, I think it is worth noting his performance. Last night catcher Roberto Pena made a difference for the first place Corpus Christi Hooks. Pena hit his first home run of the season and those two runs provided the difference in a 3-2 win.
    But his big play of the night came with 2 outs in the bottom of the ninth with one of the best base stealers in all of minor league ball on first base for NW Arkansas. Terence Gore has stolen 218 bases in his career at a 90% rate. Pena gunned him down at second to end the game. Boom!
    Brendan McCurry threw two scoreless innings for the save and must have appreciated his catcher’s great play.

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  10. My personal feeling on the closer situation mirrors many of you. I think stick with Gregerson but let one of the other guys pick up some of the load.
    I think Feliz should stay in the longer role 2 or 3 at a time and I also salivate at adding that big arm to the rotation next year.
    I’m afraid of moving Harris out of his role and I am afraid of wearing him out.
    I like the fact that there are lots of options.

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  11. I say stay the course for now. And my gut tells me that Harris is probably overdue for a couple of bad outings. It is unrealistic to expect him to be so perfect each and every outing. And keep those bats hot. Also, regarding Gattis at catcher. I am not so sure how that rates as a “genius” move. He was a catcher in Atlanta. We either traded all of the catchers or the ones we have haven’t fulfilled expectations. So what other choice was there? I just hope Correa and Rasmus heat up when Springer cools off. Which he will off and on. While our pitching has improved significantly since April, none of them will complain about too much run support.

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    • There were several options for a backup catcher. They could trade for a catcher, bring up Stassi or move Gattis to backup catcher. The genius part was maximizing Gattis’ value to the team by making him a catcher AGAIN.

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      • I have to agre with Nance here. The guy was A bad DH and even worse left fielder taking up a roster spot. Doesn’t take a genius to put him back behind the plate where he at least had some experience.

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      • Tim, even Luhnow’s mother would admit he blew it with the Gattis trade last year. Moving him to DH was a bad call given the options available in the system and throughout 2015. Admitting a mistake, or perhaps being forced into it, is admirable but certainly not genius.

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      • That was a good trade. Have you heard about Folty? We also got Hoyt in the deal. Even the mom for the Braves GM would admit it has worked better for the Astros.

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      • Folty has put up a combined 0 WAR for the Braves while Gattis has put up 0.4. Since no one else in the trade has appeared in the major leagues the Astros have gotten the better end of the trade, to date.

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      • The sources are viewable at fangraphs.com or baseball-reference.com or numerous other sites that show that Gattis has out-performed Folty. By the way, how did you like that big Gattis HR today on the same day Folty got put on the DL, AGAIN?

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  13. The best thing about the Gattis as backup C is the additional flexibility it gives to the bench. Not sitting there with a spot tied up with a backup C on the bench who can’t be used.

    Sure wish his knees and back would have allowed that last season and we would not have traded away Tropeano and Perez for someone who was a useless rental more or less.

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  14. I agree with the rest. Leave things the way they are.
    Personally I like the old school way of leaving a reliever in more than one inning if he’s successful. Having a new pitcher every inning not only tires out a pitcher but you never know how they’ll perform from day to day.

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  16. Whaoo and Friers I mean Fiers still needs to go only worse ERA if you Take out DK is Giles and Fields, we have 2 long guys in Feldman and Feliz, Give The passionate, crazy man Devenski the spot. I’m sure we can get a Sngle A pitcher for Fiers and Gomez.throw in Fields and one of the 24 year old computer nerds making decisions.

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      • Tim even for you that above conceding and rude. Didn’t your parents teach you that teaspoon of honey vs a cup of vinegar . If not try it, it really help relationships personal and professional. I cant figure out if you are just miserable or rude or both. Your arrogance almost ruins Chipalatta

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      • I’m happy and love my Astros. I have a beautiful wife and 2 wonderful boys so I couldn’t be happier. Oh, get over it.

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      • I assume you meant condescending. If so, I’ve been much more condescending than this. The mere fact you suggested getting rid of Fiers tells me all I need to know.

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  17. Though the Diamondbacks and the Athletics have losing records, they both came into their Astros’ series with winning streaks. So the Astros are playing hot teams and doing pretty well. Although the Astros don’t have to face Rich Hill, who has been Oakland’s best pitcher this year, his replacement on Sunday is a guy named Sonny Gray.

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  18. .224/.250/.579

    Seems I’m the only one who believes that Marwin has no business starting against a righty pitcher. He’s the poster child for why not to rely on lefty-righty match ups in any situation. I really do believe that we are a dumb organization.

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      • No eating crow here. I’m always delighted if a player proves me wrong. Who is Graveman? You’ve got to help me Tim. Those stats I put up were this years numbers for Marwin against righty pitching. Along with 3 walks and 27 K’s. And lifetime, his OPS against righthanders is still under .700. And we put the guy at first? Again?

        And before you say it, I am pissed that we gave a guy a job out of Spring Training and gave up on him way too soon. We already know what Marwin will do against righties. And erratic as White has been, his numbers against righties are significantly better. My whole premise is that our club has an over tendency to go with righty-lefty match ups. I look at White’s even .200 BABIP at home and I know it’s going to get better if he’s just given a chance to play on a more regular basis.

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      • Dave,

        I was agreeing with you, but I guess that got lost in translation. Pointing out that Graveman’s splits this year show he’s been better against LHs reinforces your point that MarGo shouldn’t be starting.

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    • I should clarify his splits this year say he’s better against LHs. In the past he’s been better against RHs, but not significantly. Also, I recall the last time you made a post like this you had to come back and eat crow because the player you questioned getting the start performed very well. Let’s hope it has to happen again. 😉

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  20. In the inning where the A’s got three runs the Astros made four huge mental errors:
    -Walk the leadoff hitter with a 2-2 count on him.
    -Put three infielders on one side of the infield and pitch the batter the opposite way.
    -Move your outfield into an extreme shift on the worst hitter in the majors.
    -Marisnick doesn’t lay back and get throwing momentum on a fly ball that he should easily have gotten to home plate. He never thought that guy was going to run on his arm and he was wrong. Marisnick was completely flat footed.

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  21. Well – good job by the offense to come right back and tie the game and then take the lead.

    Maybe we should give out Colby Jack bobble heads more often.

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  22. Tim, I knew Graveman was the starter. I was hoping you were going to find me some head to head stats that showed us why Marwin should be starting.

    I’ll say this. White has been horrible at home, and I mentioned his .200 BABIP. But the kid is hitting .280 on the road with a .360 OBP and a .934 OPS. Those are the kind of numbers I might have expected from him based on his excellent on base skills throughout his minor league career, and in winter league against good pitching and in Spring Training. I think that guy is still waiting to show himself and we have effectively kept him from being that everyday hitter by pulling the plug on him. I think the Crawford boxes have got him screwed up, and that can be fixed. But he’s got to play.

    1OP, we’re watching a good ballgame today, but those little things all add up. I guess I’m getting down on Hinch somewhat at this point, but I think he’s too darn laid back. You are correct on all four counts of course, but most annoying was Jakes three hopper. He’s got the arm to no hop that throw and get the out.

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    • Well, I do have one statistic that may help you understand Marwin in the lineup the last two days. I saw this before yesterday’s game. Besides being a better defender at 1B than White, Marwin is batting .253 against RH starting pitchers this year, which is one of his better splits. It doesn’t make him a better hitter than White but it combined with his defense and White’s slump I am not surprised Marwin is in there.

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  26. Gregerson Gregerson but we shouldnt just a closer by blown saves and almost a 5 ERA. Keep running him at there Good guy!

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  28. That’s a lot of BS now! Anyone want to change their answer from earlier today? It’s ok, we’re allowed to procrastinate here. I’d hate to lose this game.

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    • It’s a familiar refrain though. The top four guys in the order had 8 hits. The bottom three had none. We’ve got to find some balance. But with Springer, Altuve, Correa, we might be watching the best 1-3 in baseball. It’d fun when it’s working.

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  33. Nick Tropeano was placed on the 15-day DL for tightness in his throwing shoulder after being scratched from yesterday’s start.

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  34. Is anybody else just stunned they didn’t walk Correa in that situation? Heck, he should have walked Correa and Rasmus to face the DP machine in Gattis. I know Gattis has been hot, but he hits into a ton of DPs. I was stunned they pitched to Correa there.

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  38. LMJ faced the A’s in his MLB debut last year with no decision.
    Gray has done well against the Astros in his career, but not at MMP. Let’s hope the Astros can keep this going and beat another team’s ace.

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    • Hopefully Gray coming off the DL will be searching around for his stuff a bit. I think LMJ is ready for a strong outing. Have to like Correa coming out of his slump and hope bobble head day got Rasmus rolling again. With Springer and Gattis on a roll, Altuve being Altuve and picking up some help from the bottom end of the lineup, this team can be a solid offensive force.

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  39. Gregersen will be fine…..just let him rest his brain for a couple of games, then let him take the ball. Every. Single. Closer……Goes through a spell like this, he will be fine.
    If we need a closer today, Feldman, or Devenski could close the game out.
    NOW… about Sony Gray. Who knows which one we will see, the one who has our number or the one whose had a real tough start to the season. I find it odd that he didn’t have a rehab start. Someone tell me if Gomez has glasses on toay!

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    • I feel for you Becky, I had to be out yesterday so I had the game on the car radio.
      It’s only been a year but I found it difficult to follow the game.

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  41. What are we gonna do about this kid??? His first inning woes just put the guys in a hole every time he pitches. You give a guy like Gray a two run pad…..and that’s all he needs. Man…..every one of our starters have first inning problems. McCullers can I’ll afford to beat up the bullpen when we play the *T H U G S* IN Arlington.

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  43. Good game all around
    – LMJ gave up the 2 runs early (not like he was getting pounded) and then he was very good
    – Gattis with another bomb
    – Gomez with his first bomb of the season and two other lucky hits (but at least he wasn’t striking out)
    – Correa with the go ahead lucky hit
    – Harris with the save – easily
    – A game where the hit team was lucky and the cold team made the mistakes

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  44. Exactly Dan…….I was in a panic when McCullers was having so much trouble in the first two innings. Look, we go to Arlington for 4 games, and if we can split the series I’ll be happy. I’m not looking to go 4/0 or3/0 against them….but if we can split I’ll be happy! I think using Harris to close today was a smart move, but I don’t think he will stay in the closers role. Gregersen will be ok, he just needs a couple of days to get the bad taste out of his mouth.

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  46. It was good to see Carlos Gomez get his first homer of the year today – and contribute to a big win in other ways.

    Now – we will go to Monkey City. And we will see who dies.

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  47. This was a catchup game.
    You remember a month ago when everything happened against us and a certain CFer couldn’t buy a hit?
    Well, today was when the good stuff catches up with our team.
    *Gray has a pitch limit.
    *The last two games limits their bullpen today.
    *Gomez finally hits a home run
    *Seeing eye hits down both lines
    *Semien turns into last year’s Semien.
    *Their pitcher tries ballet in front of the mound and fails.
    This was the day good luck plays catchup with bad luck for the Astros.
    It’s about time!

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  50. Before I leave for a road trip to Kingwood tomorrow to spend time with the kids, I want to eat just a little crow. I said to stick to Gregerson and let Harris fill in as closer when Luke couldn’t pitch, but Gregerson is giving it up too much for the team to make a big run so I believe Harris needs to slide deeper into that role and Giles and Feliz are going to have to help out closing in the second half of the year, too.
    I still don’t trust Giles very much as a closer, but I do like him in our bullpen. Until he becomes a lockdown closer, he is going to have problems being worth the price we paid. Right now, we are fine and we have Hoyt ready to go, too.
    I am ready for the Astros to beat another team’s ace and to send Colby Lewis to the showers early, also. Tomorrow night’s game is the most important game of the season. Am I right?

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    • You are dead on. We have now reached the witching hour and have to face our nemesis on the road. It is a good thing that the Astros are playing their best baseball of the season because it looks like the Rangers are doing exactly the same. Honestly, and I think most Astros fans would say the same, but maybe not publically, but if I was given the opportunity to take the split now and just move onto Tampa Bay I would do it and be very happy about it. Sure, I would love to see them get revenge and either sweep them or take 3 of the 4, but if I’m being realistic and the baseball gods offered me a split today I would take it.

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    • Absolutely! I thought it best to leave Gregerson as closer too. So save me a slice of crow pie.
      This next game/series is definitely the most important game of this year.

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    • If you’re coming to Kingwood and you want to watch the game, you have to put up with the *DULL* Rangers announcers. I usually turn the t.V to mute and listen to the radio for a play by play, we don’t get Root sports out here😢😢 Small world…who knew you had family out here where I live!!

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      • The fans in Arlington gave a standing ovation to their *thug* second baseman today since he served his 7 game suspension. I guarantee there will be an incident involving that little freak, in the next 4 games.

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