WTSWTM: The Astros’ off-season edition

It is time to return to the wonderful world of WTSWTM – What They Said, What They Meant. A quote is taken from chron.com (Spit!!) showing what an Astros-related person said and this is followed by an explanation of what they really meant.

Jeff Luhnow on the Dallas Keuchel settlement for $7.25 million (most for a first year arb eligible pitcher) that avoided arbitration

  • What he said. “It’s important when you have a player (like Keuchel) to get a deal done and not have to argue about his merits in front of a judge and drag that out.”
  • What he meant. “We gathered the whole staff together to come up with negative things we could present during an arbitration hearing with Keuchel. All we could come up with was that some people think his beard looks like a silly fake one that he hangs over his ears. Oh, and apparently he occasionally forgets to put his wet towels in the hamper after he showers.”

Jeff Luhnow on 2015 first round draftee Alex Bregman playing at positions other than SS this year:

  • What he said. “I kind of want him to get off to a good start this year (at shortstop) and then we’ll see what happens…..The good thing about shortstops is, they can usually play third and second pretty easily.”
  • What he meant. “Yeah I heard what he said about only wanting to play SS, even with Carlos Correa locked into the position for the next decade in front of him. I’m sure the Yankees drafted some SS’s that said that, but had to detour because of Derek Jeter. At some point he will want to play in the majors more than he will want to play SS.”

A “person close to the situation” on the Astros going to arbitration with Jason Castro over $250,000 difference:

  • What he/she/it said. “It’s perfectly clear that Jason’s arbitration case is 100 percent file and go (Basically he takes the clubs’ offer or they go to arbitration without further negotiation). Given that fact, I see no way this case could settle at this point.”
  • What he/she/it meant. “After we get done presenting our case, the judge will think we were insane to offer the $5 million in the first place.”

Luhnow on Keuchel, Valbuena, Castro, Fields, Gattis and MarGo being Arbitration eligible:

  • What he said. “There is a lot of money (at stake). It’ll swing our payroll pretty significantly. There’s a lot of players, so there’s just a lot of work that has to be done. Especially when you got a young team, it takes a significant amount of time and resources to prepare for those discussions and ultimately any hearings that you end up going to.”
  • What he meant. “The first eight words are all that matters.”

Astros general counsel Giles Kibbe on the Cardinals organization’s hacking of the Astros data base:

  • What he said. “We have a great amount of respect for Bill DeWitt and the Cardinals organization.  And, we are confident that Commissioner Manfred will guide MLB through this process in the best way possible.”
  • What he meant. “Thank the Lord that Bud Selig isn’t still in charge or we would be handing Carlos Correa over to the Cards as part of the ‘punishment’.”

Kibbe on the claim of former Cards employee Chris Correa (no relation to Carlos), who claimed he saw Cardinals’ proprietary information when he hacked into the Astros’ data base:

  • What he said. “He stated that he saw information on Astros database that he believed was Cardinals proprietary information. And to be very clear, no one at any time with the Cardinals, or anyone associated with the Cardinals or with Major League Baseball, ever made any statement, contacted the Astros or raised any concern that anything in our database, in our network was Cardinals proprietary information. In order for information to be proprietary, the person with that information must make efforts to make sure that it’s confidential. And as Mr. Correa testified today, whatever it was he saw in the Astros’ database, he reported that to the Cardinals organization, and again, the Cardinals never contacted us to raise any concern that what was in our system might be proprietary.”
  • What he meant. “If there was ever any doubt that I am a lawyer – this quote puts that to bed. Yeah, the Cardinals are going to contact us and complain about proprietary information they are seeing on a database that they are viewing illegally. “

Part 1 – Writer Dan Shaughnessy of the Boston Globe who did not vote Jeff Bagwell for the Hall of Fame:

  • What he said. “I know that’s unfair (not voting for Bagwell because of PED suspicions). There’s no positive test, no Mitchell Report. He’s done everything he can publicly, and I understand how unfair and hurtful that is. But we are assigned a difficult decision, and that (not to vote for Bagwell) thus far is my decision.” (The columnist acknowledged the disappointment among Houston fans, noting that former Red Sox star Jim Rice waited 15 years to make the Hall)  “Look at the trend. He’s getting into the Hall of Fame, not this year but probably next.
  • What he meant. “You would think that living in New England, the supposed birthplace of the United States that I would have more respect for the presumption of innocence. Well that is great for U.S. courts, but in the Hall of Fame voting I am one of the judges and if I want to punish Bagwell based on perception, no one can stop me. And if I want to hurt him because Jim (Boston Red Sox) Rice had to wait 15 years, even better.”

Part 2 – Writer Howard Bryant of ESPN, who also did not vote for Bagwell for the Hall of Fame:

  • What he said. “I think Jeff Bagwell’s numbers are Hall worthy, and I believe eventually he will be inducted, but I did not feel comfortable voting for him because of the PED issue. Whether fair or unfair, this is the position MLB, the players, and the Hall have put voters in by not showing adequate leadership or guidance on the issue years ago when the credibility of the players was at stake. Most troubling for me was how during his playing career Bagwell often said the issue of PED use ‘didn’t matter’ to him. Like many players, he chose silence or ambivalence by not fighting for or protecting his reputation at the time, and I simply didn’t feel comfortable voting for him now.”
  • What he meant. “I have made myself bulletproof on this issue. I am not voting for him now because he did not try to defend himself against anonymous whispers and rumors about his PED use. Now if he had defended himself, I would not vote for him, because I would say I suspected he was lying like Rafael Palmeiro or Roger Clemens. I tell you I can’t lose.”

Bonus Question – Part 3 – SF Chronicle writer Bruce Jenkins, who also did not vote for Bagwell for the Hall of Fame

  • What he said. “I loved watching Bagwell hit. He was one bad-a$% dude in the batter’s box. PED implications mean nothing to me: I’ve voted for Bonds, Clemens, McGwire and Sosa without fail, from the beginning. I’ve just always based my vote on whether a player struck me as a Hall of Famer AT THE TIME — his reputation around the game, his presence, his influence. I never felt that way about Bagwell or (Craig) Biggio. I absolutely felt that way about Will Clark, Don Mattingly and Keith Hernandez, all of whom came up short. And so it goes.”
  • What you think he meant…….
←
→

76 responses to “WTSWTM: The Astros’ off-season edition”

  1. Enjoyed this post for many reasons, not the least of which is that it didn’t have a bunch of decimal points in it. As I said earlier, I believe there’s more to come on the database caper.

    Liked by 2 people

    Reply

  3. WHS: Dewitt commenting on the Cardinals and the hacking scandal. ““I think I have confidence in the commissioner doing the right thing whatever that right thing is,” said DeWitt. “I think it depends on the facts. Some of the facts you know because there was a confession there or a plea. What else they have and want to talk to the commissioner’s office about, I don’t know. It remains to be seen.”

    WHM: “How you like your fate being determined by this clown that wants to do away with infield shifts? All I know is it is better him than those writers that vote for the HofF. “

    Like

    Reply

  4. A co-worker just mentioned to me that the Astros will be playing an exhibition game in Mexico City Mar 26-27, which led me to check it out. I guess everyone here knows, but I did not. Jeff Luhnow was born in Mexico, which is why he was so eager to make this happen.

    Like

    Reply

    • Diane I originally had a what they said about the Astros playing the Padres in Mexico City but it led to a politically incorrect what they meant that said they were trying to build up their fan base before it crossed the border and so I backed off from that.

      Like

      Reply

      • The Astros want to start an Academy like try have in Puerto Rico, in Mexico City, or one of the more quiet towns around Mexico City… that would be a big win-win for us, and for the youth in Mexico.

        Liked by 1 person

  5. What Dan Shaughnessy meant, talking about Bagwell: He should have gone into the Hall as a member of the Red Sox and I’m very bitter about that. I gave my vote to Larry Anderson.
    What SF writer Bruce Jenkins meant: I’m not voting for Bagwell because he killed us when he played against us. I don’t like Mike Scott either! It’s nothing personal, I just don’t like anyone who played in Texas. And what’s this stupid deal about spending your whole career with one team? It just seemed like he cared way too much about his team and not enough about himself. I don’t think players should do that.
    What Luhnow meant to say about Bregman: For what we paid him, we want him to be flexible and play where we need him. We didn’t draft him to play SS in Fresno. Or Conroe. Or Round Rock. Or wherever our AAA club is going to be.
    What Luhnow said about Keuchel’s arbitration: I tried to call Stearns to ask him what to do but he wouldn’t return my calls. I tried to get into his system, Beer Control, by using his old password “sabreman” but he changed it. So we just paid The Bearded One what he asked for.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  6. WHS: Nov 15th, “”We’re not constrained by a budget,” Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow said. “I think we’re going to look at what makes sense for the club. We’ve got players in Triple-A a lot of our fans want to see up here. We’ve got other considerations potentially through the trade market and free agency, and we just need to consider arbitration players in the context of whether they’re the best fit for our team, but it doesn’t come down to whether or not we can afford them. We can afford to keep them all if we wanted to.”

    WHM: “I got pig iron, I got pig iron, its all pig iron.”

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  7. The Hall of Fame comments from Bruce Jenkins bother me just as much as the ones by the first two writers (who are keeping Bagwell out due to suspicions).
    Jenkins said he does not hold Bags out because of steroids, just because he didn’t get the aura of H of F from him like he did with Clark, Mattingly and Hernandez.
    Below is how the four 1Bs stacked up in some of the standard statistical areas.

    Runs SBs HRs RBIs BA OBP SLG OPS
    Bagwell 1517 202 449 1529 .297 .408 .540 .948
    Clark 1186 67 284 1205 303 .384 . 497 .880
    Mattingly 1007 14 222 1099 .307 .358 .471 .830
    Hernandez 1124 98 162 1071 .296 .384 . 436 .821

    In 8 of the 9 categories, Bagwell had the best numbers and he had the best numbers by a significant margin. Only in BA did he trail slightly 2 of the other 3.
    I know that there was more offense in his time than the other 3 (Clark did overlap with his career the most) – but scoring and knocking in 20% more runs is a significant accomplishment, especially with 2/3 of his time in the cavernous Astrodome.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

    • You just made Jenkins look like someone who doesn’t know anything about baseball. That says a lot him being a voter. He’s a dufus!

      Like

      Reply

      • Well actually I thought he did a great job of that by himself.
        I like all 4 of these guys, I really thought that Clark had one of the best swings around, I thought Hernandez was the best fielding 1B in my lifetime, but Bagwell was an awesome hitter even if he did not do it in New York (all of Mattingly’s career and 1/2 of Hernandez’s) or in Jenkins home city (Clark).

        Like

      • Jenkins is a kook. Every time he writes something like that he loses more credibility. They should pull the vote from a guy with such ignorant rationale.

        Like

    • I can live with the non-votes due to PED suspicion. I don’t agree with it, but I can live with it. However, if your argument is based upon numbers and you feel Mattingly and Hernandez are HOFers, but Bagwell is not then you lose all credibility. There isn’t any scenario, based upon statistics, where Mattingly and Hernandez are better than Bagwell. It is ridiculous to even suggest it.

      Like

      Reply

  8. Bonus WHM: “Playing for a big-market, West or East Coast team is right off the bat worth 20 WAR, so until these good-not-great pet projects of mine are in, I’m taking my vote and going home.”

    Like

    Reply

  9. What Jenkins meant –

    “Look, why would we vote in guys that play their entire careers in the minors. – puts finger on fake ear piece – Wait, you mean to tell me, there is a MAJOR league team in Houston? Who woulda thunk it?”

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  10. from an espn insider piece ranking the top ten teams.

    5. Texas Rangers

    The Rangers were 80-58 after May 3 last season, overcoming a slow start to reach the postseason, and if they can avoid some of the devastating injuries that hammered them last spring — to Yu Darvish, in particular — they should be better from beginning to end. Cole Hamels leads their rotation, with Darvish expected back sometime during the season, and Rougned Odor and Delino DeShields are now established at second base and center field, respectively. More importantly, the bullpen that drove their midseason turnaround will be a whole lot better at the outset of ’16 than it was in ’15, with Sam Dyson, Jake Diekman and Keone Kela on board from the start.

    6. Houston Astros

    Unless the Astros add another starting pitcher before Opening Day, Houston will go into this season with some rotation depth questions behind Dallas Keuchel, Collin McHugh, Mike Fiers and Lance McCullers. But the Astros likely will have the flexibility to patch and fill as needed, and the addition of Ken Giles strengthens their bullpen. Meanwhile, shortstop Carlos Correa is just starting his journey as one of the best players in baseball.

    whs: we respect the astros. whm: how the hell do they have as good of a team as us and half the payroll

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  11. WHS: “Chris Davis grades out as the top free agent because he’s the top outfielder, the top first baseman and the top DH,” Boras said. “He’s all of those. He’s three in one.”

    WHM: “To be a good agent, you have to get a team that needs an outfielder – say Baltimore, to bid against a team that needs a 1st baseman – say Baltimore, against a team that needs a DH – say Baltimore. When you get three teams bidding against itself or just one doing it to themselves, you can become a very rich sports agent.”

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

      • I used to despise Boras when I was younger. I thought he was bad for baseball, but, like you said, if I was a talented baseball player and needing an agent he would be the first person I would contact. I no longer despise him as I have come to realize he is just serving his clients and these owners have money to spend. Why begrudge the agent for doing what he/she was hired to do?

        Like

  12. Every year the writers pi $$ me off. The three that didn’t vote for Griffy Jr should get their man cards ripped up. PERIOD. The Era of PED’S will be a cloud around Bagwell and it appears that won’t go away until some of these jokers retire. I spent 7hrs in the “chemo room” today, one down….7 to go. If I ever again feel sorry for myself, all I need to do is go sit in that room again, and see 100 people laughing, and making friends. They certainly don’t feel sorry for themselves, they know it’s a marathon, not a sprint. So far so good, except they told me I shouldn’t drink coffee…………and
    I just laughed, and laughed, and laughed! I can give up a lot…….but coffee ain’t one of them!!
    Dallas Keuchel💵💵 pay the man, he earned every penny of it!
    Jason Castro⏰⏰clock is ticking kid….they’re trying to tell you something.

    Liked by 4 people

    Reply

      • The Royals have agreed to terms with Ian Kennedy on a five-year, $70MM deal. I think Yahoo is late in updating their list or perhaps some teams are waiting for physicals prior to announcements.

        Like

    • I agree with your assessment. Cespedes looks like the only one to me. With Hoyt waiting to bust open down in AAA and force his way in, I don’t see any need to sign a RHRP. Feldman and Peacock look as good as any of the starting pitchers on that list and I like Feldman as a #5 starter. They both should be well rested and Musgrove could be ready for the bigs soon, too.

      Like

      Reply

      • I don’t know, rj. You have two big ifs there, and he has several more ifs with his low K rate, high BB rate and not too good ground ball rate.
        I always though that Lincecum would burn out too soon because they rode that slender body hard and long early in his career and that delivery is very hard to maintain.

        Like

      • yeah i agree op, its a long shot. but if that hip was the cause of his problems and it gets fixed and he can pitch effectively, he might be worth a look. but as many have said, i would rather have one of our young guys step up if ready.

        Like

    • Every time I look at someone and think “So why not Cliff Lee for $2 million” I keep thinking that in most cases I would rather let someone we already have in the system take a shot at it.

      Like

      Reply

      • I doubt Cliff Lee would sign for $2 mill he’s probably looking for more money.
        And I have a problem with the posibillity of losing him mid season to another ingury.
        I’m all for seeing what we have in our OWN pantry…

        Like

      • That flyer may be worth it. A healthy Cliff Lee can win more games than most any starter we have down in the system. A healthy Cliff Lee is better than Feldman. It’s not my money, so if you can get him for a small price, its a good chance to take. It’s not my money.

        Of course the big word there is the smallest word there – if.

        Like

  14. Agree on Lincecum 1OP. Does he get his fastball back with the hip surgery? I don’t think anyone is convinced yet. Maybe he can reinvent himself as a different kind of pitcher but we have guys in house already with higher upside.

    Dan, seems that Cliff Lee wants a guaranteed rotation slot. Even hypothetically, I’d much rather start the season with Feldman and the guys in Fresno we’ll have on standby. I wouldn’t give any reclamation project, including Lee, any such guarantee unless I was the Astro GM three seasons ago. How many teams might today?

    Like

    Reply

      • That was the one that surprised me. Considering the Rangers are aging and the AL West teams have all gotten better it’s not outside the realm of possibility they only get 79 wins, but the Royals have brought back most of their team except Zobrist and Cueto and for them to drop almost 20 games is surprising.

        Like

  16. I saw where Colby Rasmus says he hopes to spend the rest of his career in Houston. Unless he is retiring when he turns 30, I don’t think that is happening.

    Like

    Reply

    • I recall him saying last season that he only wanted to play about 3 more years after 2015. If he is willing to sign a 3/$36M contract to stay in Houston it could happen, He really likes living and playing in Houston. Unless another team offers a contract well north of this there is always the possibility he finishes his career here.

      Like

      Reply

    • Think he would restructure his QO so he COULD sign a 2-3 year contract?
      I’m not that bright about QO, and how they work. I’m glad he likes it here…..he’s had a tough time fitting in the former teams he played for. I like him……he’s honest, and hard working.

      Like

      Reply

  17. I really don’t like Rasmus at $15.8 million but the one year is good. If they could get him multi years for less per year it would be more palatable.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  18. Speaking of Colby Jack, everybody get to this morning’s Chronicle for Brian Smith piece on Rasmus. He was over at Brooke Medical Center with Wounded Warriors and serving burgers at Whata. Yes, we paid a lot of money, but he is a special guy. Grew up in single wide trailer with roaches and rats (maybe some of us did too). Anyway, I won’t be the spoiler except to say he lingered on the Kansas City loss as much as some of us did. I always liked him cause he’s crazy in a natural sort of way, and I that’s how I feel now.

    Liked by 4 people

    Reply

    • I read the article…I’m so glad he came back. And you know what? I think he’ll actually improve on his numbers too.

      Like

      Reply

  19. After long deliberation, actually about 2 minutes, I have decided to accept 1OP’s premise on Cespedes. But with one caveat. He plays a corner OF. We bundle Castro and Gomez for Lucroy at catcher. I am willing to take a chance on his concussions. He can always move to 1st if for no other reason than to get another bat into the line-up.

    Like

    Reply

    • Lucroy is gone next year too. He’ll be getting his huge free agent contract from someone other than us. 1OP is certainly correct in that Cespedes gives our club so many more options. So sure, I’d do Gomez and Castro for Lucroy if Cespedes is on our 2016 roster. But why would the Brewers want Castro and a return of Gomez , both free agents themselves, especially when they already have a 500K guy for center who may well produce quite a bit more (I think so anyway) offense than Gomez? It would be hard to argue us not being significantly better offensively, even though I don’t think we’d get 35 homers out of Cespedes again. And I also don’t think Cespedes will all of a sudden become a “corner outfielder”. He’s a leftfielder. I think it’s a long, long shot that our club will do a long term deal for anyone in the Cespedes price range, but if it were to happen, it’s not my money. I just don’t think with our apparent still limited payroll ability, it’s the best way for this club to go.

      Like

      Reply

    • All my reasons for signing YC are important, but none more so that giving Marisnick time to find the bat he showed last April and September. With that glove, that arm and with him being the best and fastest baserunner on the team, we have to give this 24 year old time to develop that bat. We owe it to ourselves because the Astros cannot afford to let a talent like Marisnick get away and then find his bat like JD Martinez did. He has it inside of him and he showed it last April and if he can hit he is a premier player.

      Like

      Reply

      • 1OP, I don’t think we’ve got to sign Cespedes in order for us to figure out if Jake can hit. There’s got to be a way without it costing us 125 million dollars! And although I rarely disagree with you, I don’t think he is our best baserunner. For example, he stole 24 bases and was caught 9 times. Springer was 16 and 4. Of course base stealing not the only facet of superior base running, but my nod still goes to Springer in that regard. But I certainly agree that we can’t give up on Jake without first giving him a real shot to play everyday, specifically in Fresno.

        Like

      • dave, somewhere yesterday I saw a complete breakdown of baserunning that was compiled by some baseball wizard group. It involved speed to first base, slolen base production, taking extra bases and not getting thrown out. I looked all over to try to find it again and I’m just not sure where I read it, but it showed that Marisnick is was the best baserunner on the team and it wasn’t close. If I remember correctly Springer was second. Altuve was way down because of his baserunning mistakes and also his tendency not see well when running the bases.
        I used Cespedes’s acquisition as a tool to get Jake to Fresno, because Cespedes gives use four outfielders and Jake could be spared to go to Fresno instead of sitting on the bench and not working on pitch recognition.

        Like

      • Admittedly, 1OP. I’m not real good with advanced stats, but I’d like to look up those baserunning figures if you can recollect where you saw them. Let’s face it, Jake has all the tools, even April and September hitting tools. If he can fill in the blanks, then we’ve got a dynamic ballplayer.

        Like

      • I was 3/4 kidding about signing Cespedes, etc. Sort of practicing my call in to the Houston talk shows where I suggest we trade Tucker for Trout – straight up. But Baseball-reference shows Lucroy has a $5.25 option for 2017. It would upgrade two batting spots.

        Liked by 1 person

      • The baserunning breakdown was on TCB. It was good work gathering the statistics, but I think it fails to account for a couple variables that made JFSF look better than he was. One weight was given for number of times a player took an extra base compared to his peers on a single. Well, if you are hitting in front of a rh pull hitter, you aren’t taking many bases. If you are on first with Altuve batting, you are getting a ton of opportunities due to a high number of ground balls and line drives getting through up the middle and other way.

        Like

  23. On a bus with a church group headed to DC, and I see the news about Wandy.

    Earn a spot, Wandy, some time during the season. Earn it and never let it go!

    Like

    Reply

  24. Looks like the idea of the NL getting the DH is gaining momentum. I hate that idea…I *like* the idea of the AL/NL being different.

    Have I mentioned yet how much I dislike this commissioner?

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  25. The Astros could swoop in and take Cespedes. MLBTR says the Nationals are offering 5/100 and we’ve been discussing 5/110 here. I still want to remind everyone he accumulated 6.3 WAR last season between two teams. Our highest position player producer was our fabulous second baseman who accumulated 4.3 WAR with a Gold Glove. I’m just saying there appears to be a lot of value at that price!

    Like

    Reply

    • 1OP, I saw that the other day. Do you think that a misprint or is it like a batting average for two teams, you can not add them together? And he did that with a slightly negative dWAR with the Mets.

      Like

      Reply

      • It’s legit. You add the acc WAR from Boston to the acc War in NY and Baseball Reference comes up with 6.3. Fangraphs has him at 6.7. He is a really good player and he could really find himself a home here with the lively young players we have on this team from all parts of the world.

        Like

  26. Wandy is probably pretty happy, he still lives in Houston, and his family lives here.
    That said…..I’m not looking for him to be in the rotation. A bullpen piece, “maybe”.
    I agree with daveb……he’s not fooling anybody. It would be interesting to see what kind of money they offered him, since Castro is getting screwed over $250,00.
    As far as Cespedes is concerned, I’d rather put that money on another starting pitcher. You guys might think he’s worth that kind of money, but I don’t.

    Like

    Reply

    • Becky, I’m with you, but don’t think there is a pitcher available via FA that is really better than our current #5 options.

      Like

      Reply

      • I think Gallardo is a slight upgrade from Feldman, but I don’t like the draft pick attachment that goes along with signing him. If it wasn’t for the lost draft pick I’d be fine signing Gallardo to a 4/$60M contract.

        Like

  27. Quote from Marisnick in the Astros Caravan yesterday: Marisnick said he’d welcome aboard anyone who can help the team. After stealing 24 bases in largely a reserve role last year, the former third-round draft pick knows he needs to improve his own game, starting with his .236 batting average.

    “I’ve made big changes this offseason, mostly with my swing path,” he said. “ I think you’ll see a difference. I can hardly wait to get started.”

    Like

    Reply

Leave a comment